We're exploring the Interior Castle, Sixth Mansions Chapter 1, in part 2 of this two-part podcast on stages of mystical prayer life. Saint Teresa explains the importance of the prayer stage of the Sixth Mansions. She uses the analogy of a spiritual engagement to describe the depths of the relationship of our heart and soul to Jesus. And of course, this deep interior prayer relationship is accompanied by trials. She outlines the state of the soul in the Sixth Mansions when dealing with spiritual directors, and the intolerable torment the soul can experience in trials as Jesus refines the soul.
UNDER CONSTRUCTION
Timeline: 00:00:00 Opening Scripture James 1:2-4 00:01:25 Tales of Glory Episode 150 Intro 00:03:05 Sixth Mansions Chapter I Topical Outline 00:04:10 Section IV. Trials from Confessors 00:04:24 15. A timorous confessor. 00:09:46 16. Anxiety on account of past sins. 00:14:38 17. Fears and aridity. 00:16:23 18. Scruples and fears raised by the devil. 00:21:36 19. Bewilderment of the soul. 00:26:20 20. God alone relieves these troubles. 00:32:29 Section V. The Soul Feels Forsaken 00:32:56 21. Human weakness. 00:37:49 22. Earthly consolations are of no avail. 00:42:37 23. Prayer gives no comfort at such a time. 00:48:26 24. Remedies for these interior trials. 00:50:37 Section VI. Trials from Devils and Other Afflictions 00:50:49 25. Trials caused by the devil. 00:53:28 26. Other afflictions. 00:54:34 Section VII. Preparing to Enter the Seventh Mansions 00:54:36 27. Preparatory to entering the seventh mansions. 00:55:49 Conclusion
So what did you think? Did you gain a deep understanding of what the dark night of the soul truly means? Thank you for being a part of the Tales of Glory family and tuning in. May God bless you immensely.
We're exploring the Interior Castle, Sixth Mansions Chapter 3, in part 2 of this two-part podcast on locutions. Locutions means "to speak". God speaks to us in many ways. Intellectual locutions/visions come from the Superior part of the soul. Saint Teresa shares with us her wisdom on the validity of these supernatural experiences and how to confide in a spiritual director.
A big thank you to the Tales of Glory family for dropping by! Next time,
we will jump back to Chapter 1 of the Sixth Mansions - And start from the beginning!
We're exploring the Interior Castle, Sixth Mansions Chapter 3, in part 1 of this two-part podcast on locutions. Locutions means "to speak". God speaks to us in many ways. How do we know what is being spoken to us by God, or soul making up fantasies, or the devil? Saint Teresa instructs us on these supernatural experiences from her classic manuscript on prayer.
Timeline: 00:00:00 Opener 00:01:47 Welcome 00:04:26 Intro Sixth Mansions Chapter 3 00:05:50 Locution vs. Prophecy 00:07:04 1. Locutions. 00:15:40 2. Sometimes caused by melancholia. 00:19:05 3. Caution needed at first. 00:23:11 4. Locutions frequently occur during prayer. 00:27:44 5. Resist those containing false doctrine. 00:36:35 6. First sign of genuine locutions. 00:37:05 7. Effect of the words: ‘Be not troubled.’ 00:42:49 8. ‘It is I, be not afraid.’ 00:44:54 9. ‘Be at Peace.’ 00:45:20 10. Second sign. 00:48:43 11. Third sign. 00:53:41 12. The devil suggests doubts about true locutions. 00:56:41 13. Confidence of the soul rewarded. 00:58:41 14. Its joy at seeing God’s words verified. 00:59:54 15. Its zeal for God’s honor. 01:01:23 Conclusion
In Tales of Glory Episode 72, we dive back into mystical theology with Saint Teresa of Avila's Interior Castle - Sixth Mansion chapter 3. Saint Teresa explains to us the three ways our soul hears internally. How do we learn to hear from God and know it's God's voice speaking to us? What do we do when we get bad spiritual direction from leaders who don't understand the supernatural? We cover this and more in this episode of Tales of Glory.
14. And certainly the affliction to be borne is great, and caution is
necessary, particularly in the case of women,—for our weakness is great,—and
much evil may be the result of telling them very distinctly that the devil is
busy with them; yea, rather, the matter should be very carefully considered,
and they should be removed out of reach of the dangers that may arise. They
should be advised to keep things secret; and it is necessary, also, that their
secret should be kept. I am speaking of this as one to whom it has been a sore
trouble; for some of those with whom I spoke of my prayer did not keep my
secret, but, making inquiries one of another, for a good purpose, did me much
harm; for they made things known which might well have remained secret, because
not intended for every one and it seemed as if I had made them public myself.
13. Locutions that come from Satan not only do not leave any
good effects behind, but do leave evil effects. This has happened to me; but
not more than two or three times. Our Lord warned me at once that they came
from Satan. Over and above the great aridity which remains in the soul after
these evil locutions, there is also a certain disquiet, such as I have had on
many other occasions, when, by our Lord's permission, I fell into great
temptations and travail of soul in diverse ways; and though I am in trouble
often enough, as I shall show hereafter,366 yet this disquiet is such that I know
not whence it comes; only the soul seems to resist, is troubled and distressed,
without knowing why; for the words of Satan are good, and not evil. I am
thinking whether this may not be so because one spirit is conscious of the
presence of another.
18. Nevertheless, Satan has many devices; and so there is
nothing more certain than that it is safer to be afraid, and always on our
guard, under a learned director, from whom nothing is concealed. If we do this,
no harm can befall us, though much has befallen me through the excessive fears
which possessed some people. For instance, it happened so once to me, when many
persons in whom I had great confidence, and with good reason, had assembled
together,—five or six in number, I think,—and all very great servants of God.
It is true, my relations were with one of them only; but by his orders made my
state known to the others. They had many conferences together about my
necessities; for they had great affection for me, and were afraid I was under a
delusion. I, too, was very much afraid whenever I was not occupied in prayer;
but when I prayed, and our Lord bestowedHis graces upon me, I was instantly reassured. My confessor told me they
were all of opinion that I was deceived by Satan; that I must communicate less
frequently, and contrive to distract myself in such a way as to be
less alone.
6. Whenever our Lord commanded me to do one thing in prayer,
and if my confessor forbade it, our Lord Himself told me to obey my confessor.
His Majesty afterwards would change the mind of that confessor, so that he
would have me do what he had forbidden before. When we were deprived of many
books written in Spanish, and forbidden to read them,—I felt it deeply, for
some of these books were a great comfort to me, and I could not read them in
Latin,—our Lord said to me, "Be not troubled; I will give thee a living
book." I could not understand why this was said to me, for at that time I
had never had a vision.[8]383
But, a very few days afterwards, I understood it well enough; for I had so much
to think of, and such reasons for self-recollection in what I saw before me and
our Lord dealt so lovingly with me, in teaching me in so many ways, that I had
little or no need whatever of books. His Majesty has been to me a veritable
Book, in which I saw all truth. Blessed be such a Book, which leaves behind an
impression of what is read therein, and in such a way that it cannot
be forgotten!
17. On other occasions, if our Lord spoke to me but one word, saying only,
"Be not distressed, have no fear,"—as I said before,456—I
was made whole at once; or, if I saw a vision, I was as if I had never been
amiss. I rejoiced in God, and made my complaint to Him, because He permitted me
to undergo such afflictions; yet the recompense was great; for almost always,
afterwards, His mercies descended upon me in great abundance. The soul seemed
to come forth as gold out of the crucible, most refined, and made glorious to
behold, our Lord dwelling within it. These trials afterwards are light, though
they once seemed to be unendurable; and the soul longs to undergo them again,
if that be more pleasing to our Lord. And though trials and persecutions
increase, yet, if we bear them without offending our Lord, rejoicing in
suffering for His sake, it will be all the greater gain: I, however, do not
bear them as they ought to be borne, but rather in a most imperfect way. At
other times, my trials came upon me—they come still—in another form; and then
it seems to me as if the very possibility of thinking a good thought, 267 or desiring the accomplishment of it, were utterly taken
from me: both soul and body are altogether useless and a heavy burden. However,
when I am in this state, I do not suffer from the other temptations and
disquietudes, but only from a certain loathing of I know not what, and my soul
finds pleasure in nothing.
244Life,
ch. xxv. 22; xxxiii. 10. Rel. vii. 22. St. John of the Cross, Ascent of Mount
Carmel, bk. ii. ch. xxxi. 1.
Life, ch. xxv. 22
22. O my Lord, how true a friend art Thou! how powerful! Thou showest Thy
power when Thou wilt; and Thou dost will it always, if only we will it also.
Let the whole creation praise Thee, O Thou Lord of the world! Oh, that a voice
might go forth over all the earth, proclaiming Thy faithfulness to those who
love Thee! All things fail; but Thou, Lord of all, never failest! They who love
Thee, oh, how little they have to suffer! oh, how gently, how tenderly, how
sweetly Thou, O my Lord, dealest with them! Oh, that no one had ever been
occupied with any other love than Thine! It seems as if Thou didst subject
those who love Thee to a severe trial: but it is in order that they may learn,
in the depths of that trial, the depths of Thy love. O my God, oh, that I had
understanding and learning, and a new language, in order to magnify Thy works,
according to the knowledge of them which my soul possesses! Everything fails
me, O my Lord; but if Thou wilt not abandon me, I will never fail Thee. Let all
the learned rise up against me,—let the wholecreation persecute me,—let the evil spirits torment me,—but do Thou, O
Lord, fail me not; for I know by experience now the blessedness of that
deliverance which Thou dost effect for those who trust only in Thee. In this
distress,—for then I had never had a single vision,—these Thy words alone were
enough to remove it, and give me perfect peace: "Be not afraid, my
daughter: it is I; and I will not abandon thee. Fear not."
Life, xxxiii. 10.
10. One day, when in great distress, because I thought my confessor did not
trust me, our Lord said to me, Be not troubled; this suffering will soon be
over. I was very much delighted, thinking I should die shortly; and I was very
happy whenever I recalled those words to remembrance. Afterwards I saw clearly
that they referred to the coming of the rector of whom I am speaking, for never
again had I any reason to be distressed. The rector that came never interfered
with the father-minister who was my confessor. On the contrary, he told him to
console me,—that there was nothing to be afraid of,—and not to direct me along
a road so narrow, but to leave the operations of the Spirit of God alone; for
now and then it seemed as if these great impetuosities of the spirit took away
the very breath of the soul.
7. One day, when I was very earnestly commending the matter
to God, our Lord told me that I must by no means give up my purpose of founding
the monastery in poverty; it was His will, and the will of His Father: He would
help me. I was in a trance; and the effects were such, that I could have no
doubt it came from God. On another occasion, He said to me that endowments bred
confusion, with other things in praise of poverty; and assured me that
whosoever served Him would never be in want of the necessary means of living:
and this want, as I have said,517
I never feared myself. Our Lord changed the dispositions also of the
licentiate,—I am speaking of the Dominican friar,518—who,
as I said, wrote to me that I should not found the monastery without an
endowment. Now, I was in the greatest joy at hearing this; and having these
opinions in my favour, it seemed to me nothing less than the possession of all
the wealth of the world, when I had resolved to live in poverty for the love
of God.
23. It seems to me that, in the state I was in then, many hours would have
been necessary to calm me, and that no one could have done it. Yet I found
myself, through these words alone, tranquil and strong, courageous and
confident, at rest and enlightened; in a moment, my soul seemed changed, and I
felt I could maintain against all the world that my prayer was the work of God.
Oh, how good is God! how good is our Lord, and how powerful! He gives not
counsel only, but relief as well. His words are deeds. O my God! as He
strengthens our faith, love grows. So it is, in truth; for I used frequently to
recollect how our Lord, when the tempest arose, commanded the winds to be still
over the sea.371
So I said to myself: Who is He, that all my faculties should thus obey Him? Who
is He, that gives light in such darkness in a moment; who softens a heart that
seemed to be made of stone; who gives the waters of sweet tears, where for a
long time great dryness seems to have prevailed; who inspires these desires;
who bestows this courage? What have I been thinking of? what am I afraid of?
what is it? I desire to serve this my Lord; I aim at nothing else but His
pleasure; I seek no joy, no rest, no other good than that of doing His will. I
was so confident that I had no other desire, that I could safely
assert it.
24. Seeing, then, that our Lord is so powerful,—as I see and know He is,—and
that the evil spirits are His slaves, of which there can be no doubt, because
it is of faith,—and I a servant of this our Lord and King,—what harm can Satan
do unto me? Why have I not strength enough to fight against all hell? I took up
the cross in my hand,—I was changed in a moment into another person, and it
seemed as if God had really given me courage enough not to be afraid of
encountering all the evil spirits. It seemed to me that I could, with the
cross, easily defeat them altogether. So I cried out, Come on, all of you; I am
the servant of our Lord: I should like to see what you can do against me.
25. And certainly they seemed to be afraid of me, for I was left in peace: I
feared them so little, that the terrors, which until now oppressed me, quitted
me altogether; and though I saw them occasionally,—I shall speak of this by and
by,372—I
was never again afraid of them—on the contrary, they seemed to be afraid of me.373
I found myself endowed with a certain authority over them, given me by the Lord
of all, so that I cared no more for them than for flies. They seem to be such
cowards; for their strength fails them at the sight of any one who despises
them. These enemies have not the courage to assail any but those whom they see
ready to give in to them, or when God permits them to do so, for the greater
good of His servants, whom they may try and torment.
3. I should like to explain the delusions which may happen
here, though he who has had much experience will run little or no risk, I
think; but the experience must be great. I should like to explain also how
those locutions which come from the Good Spirit differ from those which come
from an evil spirit; and, further, how they may be but an apprehension of the
understanding,—for that is possible,—or even words which the mind addressed to
itself. I do not know if it be so but even this very day I thought it possible.
I know by experience in many ways, when these locutions come from God. I have
been told things two or three years beforehand, which have all come to pass;
and in none of them have I been hitherto deceived. There are also other things
in which the Spirit of God may be clearly traced, as I shall relate by
and by.
10. There is no reason, therefore, why I should dwell longer
on this matter. It is a wonder to me that any experienced person, unless he
deliberately chooses to do so, can fall into delusions. It has often happened
to me, when I had doubts, to distrust what I had heard, and to think that it
was all imagination,—but this I did afterwards: for at the moment that is
impossible,—and at a later time to see the whole fulfilled; for our Lord makes
the words dwell in the memory so that they cannot be forgotten. Now, that which
comes forth from our understanding is, as it were, the first movement of
thought, which passes away and is forgotten; but the divine locution is a work
done; and though some of it may be forgotten, and time have lapsed, yet is not
so wholly forgotten that the memory loses all traces of what was once
spoken,—unless, indeed, after very long time, or unless the locution were words
of grace or of instruction. But as to prophetic words, they are never 210 forgotten, in my opinion; at least, I have never forgotten
any,—and yet my memory is weak.
10. There is no reason, therefore, why I should dwell longer
on this matter. It is a wonder to me that any experienced person, unless he
deliberately chooses to do so, can fall into delusions. It has often happened
to me, when I had doubts, to distrust what I had heard, and to think that it
was all imagination,—but this I did afterwards: for at the moment that is
impossible,—and at a later time to see the whole fulfilled; for our Lord makes
the words dwell in the memory so that they cannot be forgotten. Now, that which
comes forth from our understanding is, as it were, the first movement of
thought, which passes away and is forgotten; but the divine locution is a work
done; and though some of it may be forgotten, and time have lapsed, yet is not
so wholly forgotten that the memory loses all traces of what was once
spoken,—unless, indeed, after very long time, or unless the locution were words
of grace or of instruction. But as to prophetic words, they are never 210 forgotten, in my opinion; at least, I have never forgotten
any,—and yet my memory is weak.
Till Next Time
Any questions feel free to ask in the comments below. There is also the Facebook page, A Field Guide to Spiritual Warfare. Come check us out there and leave comments or ask questions. If you like the podcast, let a friend know. Next episode, we will complete the Sixth Mansion Chapter 3 (part 2).
In this episode of Tales of Glory, Fireside Chat edition, we look at mystical experiences of locutions as they apply to discerning internal voices. Is a demonic voice always demonic? Can a dissociated identity (a part) take on the appearance of a demonic manifestation.
Pastors and counselors, what do you do when you think it is a demonic presence, but the demon won't leave? We cover some important topics in Christian inner healing and spiritual warfare.
How do you discern demons from dissociated human parts? Some good points on ministry are presented to help you become a more effective deliverance minister, inner healing minister, and Christian counselor.
We're exploring the Interior Castle, Sixth Mansions Chapter 1, in part 2 of this two-part podcast on stages of mystical prayer life. Saint Teresa explains the importance of the prayer stage of the Sixth Mansions. She uses the analogy of a spiritual engagement to describe the depths of the relationship of our heart and soul to Jesus. And of course, this deep interior prayer relationship is accompanied by trials. She outlines the state of the soul in the Sixth Mansions when dealing with spiritual directors, and the intolerable torment the soul can experience in trials as Jesus refines the soul.
